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Avatar User Offline H the boat
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Posted: August/11/2015 at 5:52pm  Quote
 
Hi Clayton,
thanks for your post and encouragement. I have used computer type simulators, and although they do control the image on the screen, the physical action is by a game type hand joystick, with very little in the way of other control. I am sure that the Game Masters could reproduce a pilots control in a similar form including the feet pedals if they wished to and thought it was profitable.   But that would not provide the answer. 

The physical set up of the manual controls, with the electrical cables and switches etc, is not the real problem. The problem is within modern electronic systems, the transmitter unit, they are built with dedicated integrated circuits, which are complete units within themselves and there is no way to break into a system to take an alternative device, unless you have detailed technical circuit information from the manufacturers.  I am hoping that sooner or later one of the big names, or even one of the lesser ones, will follow this thread and offer to cooperate with me, or even do it themselves.

The apparent problem with controlling most UAV by FPV, is that the operator has only one field of view, which severely limits  the ability to judge distance by perspective. For most operators, who are using  them visually anyway, or to capture images from a height, they quickly become used to the limitation. 

Flying an aircraft requires considerably more visual information. Some success has been achieved by using a narrow angle camera  instead of the  120 deg which is normally used. However the military now go one better and have at least two or three narrow angle cameras,  set up ahead and on both sides, but not from the same point. The side cameras are set at a position behind the ahead camera, but all are directed so that the edge of each image overlaps the adjacent image. The pilot is also looking at three monitors physically positioned and angled  so that the images are adjacent. This give a much more realistic view and enables the pilot to make a much better judgment of his position, not quite but almost three dimensional, without the fish eye distortion. 

The problem of flying RC models by visual sight, is one rarely realised, the pilot is not in the aircraft, and only sees from a fixed position. Whilst the model is relatively near to the pilot, he has a good indication of both the direction and the angle of flight, but as the model gets further away it is often very difficult to see the exact orientation, particularly if it is coming towards you or going away. Whats more, the action of the ailerons and rudder  is in the opposite sense when coming towards you, than when going away.

Sorry to be sounding like the proverbial schoolmaster, but I have had this control idea on my mind for some time and I wont let it beat me.    H. 


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Avatar User Offline marmbrust
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Posted: August/11/2015 at 6:11pm  Quote
 
Quote: H the boat

 Whats more, the action of the ailerons and rudder  is in the opposite sense when coming towards you, than when going away.

 

Please go flying the traditional way and see how it goes. I've been flying for 25 years now and the only control input that I even think about at all is rudder input while inverted. Every thing else is second nature after you get the hang of it.

Also check with your local club etc. about the control console before you invest to much time and energy to the FPV. Most of the local clubs here simply would not let you attempt this sort of thing at the field. If you started talking about it they would tell you, that's not what we do here. Not trying to discourage you but the US has strict regulations about FPV and the easy answer for the club is a simple no.

Welcome to the site, as you can see, by the many responses, you'll get lots of help along the way.



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Avatar User Offline Skipsoaring
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Posted: August/12/2015 at 3:11am  Quote
 
H, I'm with Mark on the control feeling and I know it sounds illogical, but I feel immersed with the plane and that imagination makes it feel like I'm flying it and also makes the controls a reflex.

A transmitter is just a board with switches and potentiometers, replace the switches and pots with your yoke ect and voila! No reason you couldn't use that practically, legally is another question.

 
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Avatar User Offline drice
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Posted: August/12/2015 at 11:11am  Quote
 
H, I realize you're just getting up to speed, and doing research at this time. It is also clear that you have a wide breadth of experience. Kudos to you.
I must say though, that this hobby has changed immeasurably in the years since you were last involved.

I suspect that NO R/C club would support your efforts, as you have stated them.

The modifications that would most likely be required to the transmitter would be so drastic as to potentially void any RF licensing in place for it. If you choose to make your own RF system, even if you cannibalize an existing modern TX...you will potentially put other R/C flyers' equipment at risk of failure if your RF design is sub-standard.

FPV flying falls under the category of "Drones". Most countries now have very strict rules about the operation of drones. Many clubs don't allow them because of the potential danger they present to local inhabitants...and the potential legal issues they represent to this hobby. Unregulated drone operators are causing havoc within this hobby, and without. Many R/C enthusiasts are openly hostile to the unregulated drone pilots, especially those that operate outside of any club.

And the idea of using a turbine will be a non-strater for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the need to have a waiver for their use, only obtainable after you have successfully proven your ability to safely operate it. Sorry H, but Turbines are no place for newbies. No matter how extensive your experience is, you are still a newbie in this hobby now.

My suggestion would be for you get a decent RC simulator for your PC, and you begin learning to fly, the way all RC pilots fly, using a modern hand-held Transmitter.


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Avatar User Offline invertmast
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Posted: August/12/2015 at 2:37pm  Quote
 
If you can't pass a medical to fly a real airplane over the populations head, then you sure as heck don't need to be flying an rc model over the populations head.   If your in a controlled environment where you can reasonably assume clearance from other people and property, like operating in a conventional RC manner in a controlled area, thats one thing. but expecting to be able to fly at a distance so far as not being able to visually see or recognize the model is inherently more dangerous.

If you want to "feel" like your in the cockpit, then build a nice cockpit of your favorite airplane and go hog nuts like some of the flight simulator guys do.

 
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Avatar User Offline H the boat
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Posted: August/12/2015 at 5:52pm  Quote
 
Hi Drice,
I note your post with particular interest principally because it appears to reflect the current control mania within the US, I mean no disrespect, but It would appear that no activity, from hand ball to mountaineering, can be engaged in unless you are a fully paid up member of a registered club or society. The U S is only a small part of the globe and worlds populations, in most other countries it is not mandatory,to be a member of a club to participate within a pastime, no matter how technically advanced or physically dangerous it may be.

Your reference to radio equipment, although I accept it is meant in good faith, it is  sadly lacking in actual technical knowledge. With  a modern TX, it is not possible to change the circuit arrangements in any way that would affect its Frequency stability or coding parameters. The changes that would be required, are in the physical control elements and nothing else. i.e. is that a black plastic or a chrome lever under your finger.

Regarding Drones, I agree with you in very many respects however i print here for the benefit of the forum a recent extract from a public document    
         the  greatest number of large and often deadly  U A V/ F P V aircraft within the USA,are owned and operated by the U S Military, who operate and pilot them from bases often hundreds of miles away from their targets.  They are also now used by U S Government agency's for a considerable number of surveillance tasks within the mainland U S A, mostly for civil purposes, but also including Border control, and search for rescue.....   

It is no wonder there is a directive to restrict private flying in the U S.

 As for using a jet turbine, you obviously have a great many more restrictions than most of us. again for the benefit of the forum I show an extract from Legal Practise Directions,

 
The UK and most EU constitutions, guarantee the right of free movement for all, that includes on land, in the air and over or under water. Unfortunately over the years, various government associated bodies, have demanded Orders in Council,  which restrict those constitutional rights to some degree or other. The most contentious being the original order that allowed certain public bodies like local town councils, to charge a fee to park a motor vehicle on common or public land.... Most Orders, are designed to promote safety for all, but are in fact also designed in most cases to provide a means of collecting revenue to enlarge that particular body.  

The CAA in the UK, are recognised as one of the most virulent organisations of this type. They will claim to have absolute authority over all airspace within UK territory that includes the 200 mile economic zone of the surrounding seas. 

But that is not legal fact. They are charged with maintaining a safe traffic zone for commercial operators, and use this as an excuse to implement often punitive measures over others, who do not impede on those traffic zones, but are considered a revenue provider, if not now, at some near time in the future....... 

 (This is what makes the inspection and licensing of Large models (anything over 20 KG) and their pilots, by the L.M.A ,( a private club), on behalf of the CAA, a nonsense.)

 As an individual, you have the constitutional right, to take to the air, in or with any form or size of contraption you wish and with any form of control arrangement you like... Providing you do not impinge on so called controlled air space, (without telling CAA  first.),    and do not in the process create a hazard to others. 

( Think of sky divers and hang gliders, they would be over the 20Kg rule, would they have to be inspected and licensed by the CAA ).Seemingly yes, but in fact no, because it cuts across their constitutional rights....

Rgds ,   H.

 

 















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Avatar User Offline marmbrust
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Posted: August/12/2015 at 6:06pm  Quote
 
And when you crash you whatever into a person and cause serious injury who's money/insurance is held liable? Or in the UK are you just SOL when someone else kills your baby because he was having fun with some un restricted activity.  Pretty sure a 25 lb 200mph jet will kill you. Our restrictions here for some things are not to protect those doing it. Its to protect others from you.

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Avatar User Offline flamo
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Posted: August/12/2015 at 8:07pm  Quote
 

H,

I'd take note what everyone is politely telling you.  These models are not toys as some people think they are and the risk of seriously injuring another person because you think it is your constitutional right to operate outside the law is down right irresponsible.  It would be another persons right to sue your butt off if you maimed or killed them.  Think about that.  Hopefully common sense prevails!!


Troy 


 
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