Eric

    I think some may have missed the original intent of your question. I don't think anyone would dispute that there is a need for the occasional ARF or RTF, most likely, just about everyone has one for one reason or another. We can probably blame ourselves for starting this craze as it was started by Jim Walker; American Junior Aircraft back in the early 1950s with the Firebaby.049 Control Line Model. Even Jim Walker never intended these ARFS to be the only means of flying; they were just a quick Expendable way of generating interest to move on to actual building of models.

    I disagree with the notion that because of ARFS, we now have good quality inexpensive servos, engines and other things available to us now. If anything, the quality has gone downhill, has anyone looked inside of some of the newer radios and actually taken a good look at the way theyre put together. Compared to earlier Radios like Kraft, all I can say is, What Quality? All of the bits and pieces we see today were developed by companies like Du-Bro, Sullivan, and Goldberg etc. etc. because modelers BUILDING planes demonstrated a need for them; it certainly was not a result of ARFS because their own copies of these products were already in the ARF kit. In My opinion, the quality of Radios, Engines and other model related products has not gone up one bit in the last 15 Years. On the other hand, the skills required to Build the average Model have certainly gone down.

    Im thankful for a site like RCSB that puts BUILDERS and those who want to Learn how to BUILD together with each other. These skills can then be passed on to future generations who will share their Learned Knowledge with others, just as earlier generations taught us.

    Eric, Hang in there, there are still plenty of Models to build and this is a good site to find them along with the products needed to build them. Whatever youre looking for, Im sure someone will be able to tell you where to obtain it. These are simply my own opinions and I certainly hope I have not offended anyone by responding to Erics question.

Have a Great Day Everyone.

John E.  

Hi Eric,

I don't think its all that bad, the sadest part is that many in the hobby these days due to the ARFS & RTFS, don't learn the basics of flight & aerodynamics. They don't learn what forces keep their plane in the air & what can bring it down!! Newton & Bernoulli, means nothing to them, let alone understanding the science!

I'm a third generation aircraft, my grandfather was the first aircraft mechanic in the RNAS WW1 & my dad an airframe fitter in the RN Fleet Air Arm WW2, I did my time at Qantas & got my understanding of flight building flying models from age 10. Without the basic knowledge you don't appreiciate the magic of flight & its pitfalls.

I too have recently come back to the hobby after a twenty year break, raising a family & am blown away with the improvments made over that time in electrics & electronics. I was happy to grab an ARTF trainer & a new Spektrum 2.4 Gig unit to get back in the air & build my flying confidence back up.

I'm now back to building my usual unorthodox aircraft & scale projects, feeling happy that come the maiden flight I'll be able to handle most situations.

Regards,

Stu Holmes.

I think there is a lot more building going on than people would think. Maybe not as many building there own trainers as there was when I entered the hobby, but percentage wise maybe more people building models beyond the sport plane stage. When I entered the hobby in 1991 there were just a few building scale, pattern, whatever. I think every club had a few and believe most clubs still have a few but there are a lot more clubs now.

As mentioned in an earlier post those people create a larger market and help hold the prices down for all of us.

Its all good!

Definitely like kissing a cousin.  I ran a small building contest for our club this past year and included arf's as a catagory (I know - don't go there - please).  We had 37 plans show up.  Only 6-7 were ARF's.  Most of the guys flew their arfs regularly but still built planes

Made me happy.

Michael

Having a pretty good overview of this segment of the hobby I'll chime in on this..

A quick look at the membership numbers on this site reflects the facts... Building is not dying off, as a matter of fact over the last 3-4 years the numbers seem to be increasing. You cannot judge the entire hobby based on your club or the ARF bashers on other boards. Based on industry info and sales there are 15,000 - 20,000 "Builders" in our hobby around the world. Do you think Top Flight would still be selling kits if they weren't selling? They don't offer them out of the goodness of their heart, but to make money.

As far as ARF's and RTF models.. They offer many people the opportunity to explore our hobby at a minimum of money and time. Two thing in short supply these days. Many of these folks progress through the hobby and try different segments, 3D, Pattern, Scale, etc. Folks our hobby is changing and we have to change with it. I look at the base of ARF's out there as an opportunity to bring more guys into scale. But it is up to ALL OF US to talk to the folks at our clubs and show them our models, maybe have them over for pizza one night, etc.

We have a couple of guys that meet on Thursday night and we help each other with projects and issues. It's a great way to have some good fellowship in our wonderful hobby. So instead of complaining about ARF's and RTF's grab one of those folks that seem interested in your scale model and start mentoring them... THAT gentlemen is what keeps this segment of the hobby alive.

Mike

I have to agree with Mike

When I mentioned arf's as a build contest catagory and added - I know - don't go there - please.  I held off because I believe ARF's have merits for new builders. Basic building skills are required even the most basic fundamentals are touched on with the basic trainers. 

This is a great starting point.  I repeatedly see new ambitious members on RCSB wanting to build an ME109 or some other complex bird before a cub or simple kit.  Get an ARF (new or old --even one that others trashed\ pitched - fix it- bash it - strip the covering, recover - fiberglass repaint - try new gadgets\gear .....  I would much rather do it there than on the ziroli P47 I have spent 20 months on and will probably spend another 20 to finish it.

By the way the arf that one the catagory in the build contest - was exceptionally well put together - very clean and straight in the lines that matter.  Looked like it belonged in a magazine review.  Deserved the win for the catagory.  The owner\builder - is a key resource for all things electric in our club and been flying quite few years.

The catagory will exist in next years contest as well.

Actually glad I started with an ARF (Avistar) still have it - never fly it - don't really want to but unwilling to part with it

Michael